I have a colonial house. The garage and family room share a roof. This roof butts up along a vinyl sided wall. One side of the roof is leaking into my attic, and running down the sheathing, and settling on the drywall ceiling of my family room. I noticed this during remnants of Hurricane Ivan.
I went up on the roof during the storm and noticed immediately that the 2 peices of J-Channel the run the roof/wall line were joined incorrectly. The lower peice sits on top of the upper peice where it is joined, thus water is getting under. No big deal because the step flashing should take care of it.
This past weekend, I ripped out the lower peice and noticed that stones from the shingles, dirt, and debris were built up in 2 areas. I cleaned it up and installed new J-Channel the right way.
Last night, I took a garden hose up to the roof and turned it on. I went into the attic and the leak is now worse. I also took a garden hose up to the roof before I did anything to see where the leaks are coming in. As a comparison of the two "hosings", the second one shows leaks only further down the roof. This probably means that the debris was a problem and is solved.
The only thing I can think of is how the lower end of the J-Channel is installed to the corner post. The J-Channel's lower end runs right smack into the post, therefore, excessive water will pool into the corner. The other issue could be flashing. I did look at this as I installed the J-Channel. I saw nothing wrong. However, I don't do this for a living and only think I know what I am looking for.
Do I have a vinyl siding issue, or a flashing issue. I know its hard to answer without seeing, but any advise is much appreciated. The house and roof are 6 years old.
Can somone give me some guidance on how to install step flashing and shingles correctly? If I can't solve this leak by this weekend by testing with the garden hose, I am going to take the siding, J-channel, shingles, and step flashing off and re-install new flashing and shingles.
Here are some questions that I have:
1) What size flashing should I use? I have 3 tab 5 inch exposure shingles. I have been reading that 5" X 7" is typical. This yields a 3" horizontal leg and a 2" vertical leg with a 2" lap. Shouldn't I go wider on both legs?
2) How do I install the step flashing? Everything I read says to install on top of a shingle just above the shingle seem by nailing it in. I have read various nailing techniques like 1) one nail at the top corner furthest from the wall, 2) one nail at the bottom corner furthest from the wall to avoid the shingles from buckling up.
Is flashing that simple.....put it in place and nail? What about also cementing it in place? If so where and how would I do this?
3) How do I install the shingles? Right now there is about a 1/2" gap from the wall to ends of the shingles. Is this correct?
4) How do I install the lower end of the j-channel into the corner post? I'll verify tonight, but I think the water is pooling where the lower end of the j-channel ends in the coner post channel. This may be backfilling and getting behind the flashing.
5) Is water getting behind the siding? Whoever installed the siding, has the siding ends touching the bottom of the j-channel. I tried to move these out, but some are still touching. Could this be a problem?
Here is a picture......I hope it uploads. I took the garden hose up again and had the water going primarily on the roof and not into the J-Channel. In the picture of the corner, the leak is happening right below this point. It is coming in like a faucet.
Before I installed the new j-channel, water was also coming in at a higher point due to the debris. This seems to not be a problem anymore. However, the leak at the corner is worse......really worse. There is a major difference in the amount of water coming in since I installed the new J-Channel.
Looking at the image it doesn't look like the flashing runs past the corner (i.e. wraps the corner). IMO - this would allow the water to run down the sidewall to the corner and then enter into the house. Right at the corner the flashing should extend past the corner and on top of the shingle. The trim at the corner should be held up a 1/2" or so to allow the water to pass by and back onto the roof.
Grumpy - any other ideas?
Build MT - Your Community Informed
Is construction the only business where people are trying to work for free?
Hold on, let me go out on the roof and check................ok, I'm back
The first step at the corner is installed like this. The vertical leg is wrapped around the corner and runs up the vertical wall. The horizontal leg is installed normally. I'm inexperienced, but I think this is installed ok.
What do you mean when you said, "Right at the corner the flashing should extend past the corner and on top of the shingle". Also, is this the horizontal leg of the first step I mentioned above. Lastly, I do not see any of the step flashing.....they are covered by shingles.
Tomorrow morning, I am going to do another gardern hose test. I am going to put the nozzle 5" up from the corner to be absolutely sure that this is where my problem is. I will let you know of my findings. I find it amazing that this has just happened out of the blue. You wouldn't believe the amount of water coming in.
Thanks for your help. I appreciate it. I have been building a 4th bedroom in the attic since April where this leak is occuring. Fortunately, the leak is past where the room ends in the attic. I also have a newborn coming in 3 weeks. So, I really appreciate the help.
Yes - the vertical leg should wrap the corner and the horizontal leg (per standard step flashing) should be on top of the shingle right past the corner. Where it wraps the corner (flashing I mean) you should be able to see it - or have 2 layers of shingles where the flashing is between the 2 layers.
Build MT - Your Community Informed
Is construction the only business where people are trying to work for free?
The the original J-channel and the peice I replaced are nail into the vertical leg of the flashing. I did not seal them after I nailed them in. I guess you just put some caulk right around the nail head?
As promised, this morning I put the garden hose 1 foot up from the corner. I went into the attic and saw NO WATER. I went out and moved the hose 2 feet up from the corner, went in the attic, and saw WATER.
I think I have a flashing problem along the entire wall. I is worse after I install the peice of J-Channel. Maybe it is leaking in through the nails holes?
How much do you think a professional will charge to come out to fix this? It is a 20 foot run.
I think I am going to throw in the towel. I inspected the flashing when I took the J-Channel off and it looked good. None were missing, their was about a 2" lap. It may be something else. Maybe the way the shingles were layed........who know's.
Ok........I didn't throw the towel in just yet. I took off the vinyl siding, shingles, and flashing. I posted various pictures.
Here are my inexperienced findings.
1) It didn't look any water ever flowed under any of the horizontal legs. I didn't find any traces of water.
2) The vinyl was pretty wet on the back side.
3) The vinyl was touching the bottom of the J-Channel in several places.
4) The sheathing looks like it is warping, but nothing major.
5) Some of the plywood has delaminated. I don't think they need to be replaced. This delamination has occurences 2 to 3 feet out from the wall as well as at the wall.
6) I expected to see more evidence of water under the shingles. In fact, they looked good.
1) I am guessing that the water is coming down the J-Channel and going into the vinyl siding. Once it fills up, the water is spilling out the back, down the wall, and into the various gaps between the sheathing and plywood deck. Is this even possible?
2) Possibly the water is getting into the keys of the shingles and then under the flashing.
I am leaning towards #1 because I see water stains close to the wall only. They are 1" to 1 1/2" at most from the wall. Also, the vinyl is touching the bottom of the J-Channel.
However, why is this not happening on the other side? The vinyl seems to be touching the bottom of the J-Channel there also.
1) Step flash and shingle.
2) Flash the side of the house.
3) Cut the vinly back so it doesn't touch the J-Channel.
4) Call someone with more experience?? Plus, I probably saved a couple hundred just with what I did today?
As far as why isn't this happening on the other side, which way does the wind blow?
I have always nailed my step flashings on the upper corner on the wall, one nail. Do not put any nails through the flashing into the decking on the roof itself. If you are going to re-use those flashings, seal those nail holes where the J channel was originally installed.
Reinstall the J-channel so that it sits approximately 1/2 to 3/4" above your shingles.
Use roofing cement or tar along the edge of the shingles (And under them) next to the wall. Again, do not nail your shingles on through your step flashing.
Seal the nails holding the J-channel on. Water can and will travel vertically with wind behind it.
Do not use caulk. If you do you will be doing it all over again in a couple of years. Use Roofing tar or sealant.
As I mentioned before, I was going to flash the side of the house because I think water is getting behind the vinyl and then behind the vertical leg of the step flashing.
Can I use felt (tar paper) to do this. I was going to use aluminum, but it is very expensive. Any other alternatives?
I thought I read somewhere that you should not use felt on the side of a structure because of either moisture damage or mold could occur. I thought they used to do this back when......that is putting felt on the entire house. Why not anymore?
I have the roof shingled and step flashed. Before I did that, I put down some self adhesive flashing along the entire span of where the roof meets the wall. It sits just as the step flashing, 1/2 horizontally and 1/2 veritcally.
Thanks everyone. I'm almost there. I will do the siding tomorrow. I am going to drill weep holes in the bottom of the j-channel and raise it 3/4 up off the shingles. I will also cut the siding back a bit so it doesn't touch the bottom of the J.
Then I guess using aluminum would be a waste as well? What do I do about the water getting behind the vinyl? I was hoping to flash over the vertical step flashing and up to the peak. This way any water that would get behind would run down the flashing and the down the step flashing.
The only way water should be able to get behind the vinyl is if it is improperly installed.
Or if a hurricane or tornado comes along...
Does your vinyl snap into place as it laps? It should, which creates a seal. Also, don't drive the nails in too tightly. Vinyl siding needs to be able float a bit, to alllow it shrink and swell according to temperature. Or the last I used did, it has been a few years since I messed with it.